Those of us who have discovered the disturbing nature of Islamic doctrine (and the growing threat of its spread) want to do something about it. But what? The emotions provoked by this are intense, of course. Many of us are frightened or horrified or angry or frustrated — and some of us feel all of these and feel them strongly. We want to stop this madness we see spreading over the world. But what can we do? What should we aim at? What is our goal?
We've been at this a long time. We started Citizen Warrior about a month after 9/11. Our comments on this site are "moderated," which means we read every comment before publishing it, and we've been doing so since the beginning. We also have a Facebook page, and we read every comment there, too. So we've heard many emotionally aroused counterjihadists saying things like "we should nuke the Middle East" or "send them all back where they came from" or "ban Islam." Understandably upset, people want to do something about Islam's growing threat. But of course, nuking the Middle East is irrational, morally unacceptable, and wouldn't solve the problem anyway. You can't nuke an ideology. Many of the Muslims now living in the Middle East would defect from Islam if they had a chance. Millions are children. Nuking the Middle East is a ridiculous proposition arising out of intense feelings of helplessness. We can't "send them back" either because many of them were born in our countries. These kinds of solutions are impotent; full of sound and fury, signifying nothing but frustration.
What kind of language should we use to describe the counterjihadist's goal? On Citizen Warrior here we have characterized it a number of ways over the years: Defeating the third jihad, thwarting Islam's prime directive, stopping orthodox Islam's relentless encroachment, reversing jihad, etc. None of these are really adequate either.
After thinking about it for awhile, we've come up with the language we'd like to use, and we want to know what you think of it. Either email us or leave it as a comment below. This is our goal:
To marginalize, discredit, and disempower
orthodox Islam.
orthodox Islam.
We can't really get rid of Islam. But we can make it so weak and maligned, so cut off from resources and shunned that it no longer poses a serious threat to the free world.
The Ku Klux Klan was once a growing movement in the U.S. They had millions of members, some of whom were in high places. They had a massive demonstration in Washington DC in 1925. Fifty thousand Klansmen were in the parade, dressed in their white robes. Just as an aside, did you know the Klan had a Kloran? I kid you not. Here's a PDF version of it.
What happened to the KKK? Why didn't they grow into a national party or take over the country? They were marginalized, discredited, and disempowered, and remain so to this day. They are still around. It's an ideology. You can't really get rid of an ideology. But you can make it something that few people want to be associated with.
How can we do that with orthodox Islam? There are many ways:
1. The first and most important is getting more people to understand that Islam is unlike other religions in important ways and that the "extremists" are not doing anything but following the written creeds of their religion. They're not "picking and choosing" passages from their texts to justify what they're doing. They're not "taking things out of context" or "misunderstanding" the Koran. It is the Koran itself and the example of Muhammad that is incompatible with modern society. We need to effectively reach people. Once enough people understand the situation accurately, the rest of this list will be relatively easy.
2. Cut off oil money to OPEC, which is the main power behind Islam's current expansion in the world.
3. Stop the oppression of women in Muslim lands (and everywhere else, including Muslim enclaves in free nations). The more power and freedom and rights women have in Muslim countries, the less orthodox those Muslims will become.
4. Prevent Sharia law from worming its way into our legal system — passing legislation that explicitly forbids it.
5. Stop Muslim immigration into free societies, or at least limit it for Muslims, limit it from Muslim countries, test Muslim immigrants for their level of orthodoxy, or something along these lines.
6. Prevent the construction of mosques inside our borders.
You've learned about the terrifying brilliance of Islam and you want to do something about it. Excellent. Here's what to aim for: To marginalize, discredit, and disempower orthodox Islam everywhere in the world. Each one of the actions on the list has a link. Follow the link to find out how you can begin to make this goal a reality.
Hi, Citizen
ReplyDeleteI have difficulty with what you might mean by "Orthodox Islam". It's highly debatable that there is such an entity. One is either Muslim or one isn't, whether one is observant or not. I would suggest that those who are less observant or non-observant would quickly follow the crazed herd if ever they had to choose between doing so or having their own heads lopped off.
The heinous crime in London has done more to marginalise and discredit Islam than people like us have managed in a very long time. We need to keep up that momentum.
We shall have our work cut out, however, because the UK government is still busily engaged in pretending that these two lunatics had nothing to do with Islam, in spite of their invoking the name of their prophet as they butchered this poor young man, in spite of the fact that we now know that the one who is captured in infamy on film was radicalised by Anjem Choudary, who cannot bring himself to condemn these animals' crime. When challenged on the BBC as to why, if he disapproved so much of British society and its actions abroad, he did not leave and go where he would be more comfortable, this lunatic had the nerve to say that he was British and had the right to stay in the UK!
We, however, can do our bit by reminding people, whenever they are daft enough to say that Islam is a religion of peace, of how the brave soldier died, that it was by a method of execution laid down in the koran, and that such violence is not only approved of but being actively preached from mosques around the world and perpetrated regularly in Muslim countries.
I have made a promise to myself to make at least two people a week aware of the true nature of Islam, regardless of whether they believe me or not, in the hope that some of what I say sinks in.
I thought like most, only a few crazies are giving Islam a bad name but then I did some reading and was shocked. Please world wake up and realize the threat that is Islam.
ReplyDeleteJust as we have gang crimes, we need jihad crimes. Jihad crimes are plundering, abusing, raping, and murdering non-Muslims BECAUSE they are non-Muslims. It is a hate crime and needs to be treated as such. Of course, Obama has prohibited law enforcement and the courts from investigating and prosecuting the criminal intent of jihad, even forbidding the use of the words jihad and Islam. Jihadists can claim accident or mental illness and their motives cannot be touched. That needs to be changed.
ReplyDeleteAttempting to impose Shariah law should also be prosecuted as sedition. We have sedition laws, and mosques (houses of war) incite the enforcement of Shariah law via fatwa (e.g., legal edicts calling for the death of apostates, etc.) and domination. Law enforcement needs to recognize the threat and enforce U.S. law, NOT Shariah law.
CW,
ReplyDeleteI truly believe that one of the mistakes we make as counter jihadi is calling jihadist "radical", "extremist" or "fanatics"
The reason I don't like these labels is that it takes away from the real problem, as you know what we see is the real Islam it is exactly what Mohammad was like and Muslims are required to be just like him as in
Sura 33:21 which states: Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.
To say someone is a fanatic means they have taken something to the extreme which really isn't the case with Islam because they haven't taken it to the extreme but they are just doing what Mohammad did.
On the surface it sounds good but it leaves people believing that if we could just get rid of the fanatics and the radicals we could live in peace with Islam...... Not true.
By using these terms we place a mask of innocence over the face of Islam.
I see many groups using these terms groups like ACT! and Clarion Project etc.
We must let people know that they haven't taken it to the extreme at all but they are just following orders like any good devoted soldier would.
Our goal: self-preservation nd the perpetuation & propagation of life, liberty & prosperity.
ReplyDeleteStrategic objective: Extinction of Islam through induction of mass apostasy among the Ummah al-Islamiyya.
Tactical objective: propagate knowledge and understanding of the real, poximate and continuing threat posed by Muslim believers.
Problem: if not completely eradicated, Islam will always regroup, repopulate, rearm and renew its attacks.
Key to victory: presented unintentionally by Brig. S.K. Malik on page 60 of "The Quranic Concept of War": destroy their faith.
My response: (1) Where is the organization to carry this plan forward. Information can be exchanged over the internet but as a rule, strangers remain strangers on the internet. I see the value of the techniques used by the democrate party and the jihadists who do grassroots face to face work, operate in small cells and meet in homes, restaurants, etc. Thirty something years ago, when I thought I was a (conservative) democrate, I remember going to Acron meetings in the homes of young lawyers. Since starting to vote conservative and being more or less active in the Republican Party (since early 90's) and the local Tea Party, I do not recall having had the opportunity to attend a political meeting at a home unless it was for a fund raising event.
ReplyDelete(2) Islam and Jihad have been around for some 1400 years, pretty much using the same methods of jihad, which have a fairly good record of success. With a target that is understood and frozen in time, you would think Islam would be a "sitting duck". Anyone who understands Islam understands that that just as Islam has found our "soft under belly" to be our freedom and mass misunderstanding of Islam, counterjihadists must have specialized techniques such as yours to politically and legally target the "soft under belly" of Islam. But this question must be thoughtfully answered: While your techniques appear promising, what is the track record of these techniques, and what other than military might, has worked in the past to defeat or even slow down Islam? Bill Coleman, vin 5 ron et yohaa period con, 8six44one92sevennine7.
Someone emailed this comment:
ReplyDeleteYes - those are civilised goals which all decent people should agree to.
Eventually we will make Islam shrink out of sight. In your “1st way” you explain how we will do that. We will tell people what Muhammad did and said in his life. When people can read the story of Muhammad from ancestry to birth to childhood to adulthood to death to his successors then they will see that it is a story of moral collapse and the growth of an evil set of ideas. One by one the people will turn their backs on Muhammad.
The difficulty today is that the story is all over the place in different documents and not in time-order. We need a “halal” set of instructions which says that this hadith comes before that hadith and so on, so that Muslims and non-Muslims are allowed to read the stories in time order. If these hadith are edited by anyone (other than the original editors, Bukhari, Muslim etc)then they are not halal. We need to set them out without comment, simply in time order. Once the story is set out in a linear format the trends of growing evil and growing power do appear clearly.
WeMustResist
Bill, in my view we are in a new situation. In the past, if Islam had not conquered your country, then nobody concerned themselves with Islamic doctrine in non-Muslim countries. And if your country HAD been conquered, then it's too late.
ReplyDeleteBut now we are in an information age. Our countries have not yet been conquered, and yet we can see something happening and have time to learn about it and we have new tools for sharing this information. We're even getting information from inside Muslim countries. Our situation is unprecedented.
ACT! for America is doing a good job of doing grassroots work, and many ACT meetings take place in someone's home.
The track record for the counterjihad movement is that more and more people in the free world are awakening to the fact that Islam is not a religion of peace.
A "Washington Post poll found that nearly half of Americans — 48 percent — have an unfavorable view of Islam. That's nine points higher than in the months after the Sept. 11 attacks."
I would bet that percentage is even higher. The grassroots, person-to-person educational campaign has clearly been working. We've got all the easy ones. Now we need to get a bit more skilled to reach the rest.
Babs, the term "orthodox" is for use when talking to those who don't yet understand. It helps prevent the waste of time answering the objection, "well, you can't blame all Muslims for what SOME Muslims do!"
ReplyDeleteOrthodox means nothing more than a Muslim that actually follows the teachings of Muhammad. You know that and I know that, but those we need to reach don't know it yet, so the word is helpful and far more accurate than the misleading terms "radical" or "extremist."
I LOVE the promise you made! Tremendous. It's something specific enough that you can accomplish it, and yet challenging. And it will make a difference.
Stop using adjectives when talking about islam. As they state themselves, there is only ONE islam.
ReplyDeleteStop using capitals when writing about islam, eg mohamed, quran, mecca, medina (use Yarhrib too instead)
Keep telling mohamed was a murderer, robber, rapist AND pedophile, in other words a common criminal!
Write letters to managers, when you see muslim attire in public places, stores etc.
ReplyDelete'Offended' and 'insulted'
Write politicians to have islam forbidden, because it violates our laws:
ReplyDelete-cruel animal slaughter
-discrimination towards non-muslims
-allowing even calling for rape in and outside of marriage
-discrimination towards women
-insisting on violence
It just does not end, and proof is given on a daily basis EVERYWHERE in the world!
(Even 1400 years of history is consistent proof of violence, based on the teachings of islam)
All of these ideas are good for spreading information. The question is what to do about the muslims already here who won't apostasize.
ReplyDeleteI say islam needs to be outlawed as a seditious act.
A reader emailed this comment:
ReplyDeletePersonally, I like the goal you stated. I also like the idea of stopping immigration into free societies, stopping mosques from being built, and most assuredly passing laws against Sharia. We are Americans and we need to stand up for our own culture which is Judeo-Christian in its inception. If they don’t like it, no one is forcing them to stay. I love cutting off Opec, but I don’t know how we can force them to treat women better in their countries. If you have a plan, I am for it. Also critical, is the idea of educating people of the true nature of Islam. It is not like being a Presbyterian or a Catholic. It is a political, legal, and religious system. Unfortunately, we have too many legislators and even Pastors who should know better that do not understand this and the fact that they lie to promote their system. You have laid out a good plan and I am behind everything you said. We must cut off the tentacles of this octopus and quick. I guess if Supreme Court justices used to be members of the Klan, it is doable. It will probably mean getting rid of this President as well. He has staffed the White House with these traitors and they are in the halls of Congress. It will be no small task, but it is the only thing that makes sense if we wish to preserve our union.
Thank you for your hard work,
Debbie Warnock
In answer to Debbie's curiosity about forcing Muslim countries to treat their women better, there are several ways and they are all taking place simultaneously. First, general international pressure. For example, because of international pressure, Saudi Arabia allowed one of its female citizens to enter the Olympics. Amnesty International enlists the help of people all over the world to put pressure on governments for specific unjust actions, often against women. For example, a woman in Iran who was raped and then sentenced to be stoned to death for having sex out of wedlock! That is obviously outrageous and lots of attention was focused on Iran.
ReplyDeleteOther organizations work to help empower women like the Girl Effect. Organizations are trying to ensure girls get an education in countries where they often don't. There are organizations working to prevent female genital mutilation. The list goes on and on.
All these individual issues add up to women gaining human rights where they now don't have it.
Our goal needs to be the fruit of both compassion and freedom. We need to be precise with words, too, because that is honest.
ReplyDeleteI will give examples of wise and unwise use of language regarding Islam then explain what I believe our goal must be.
Insulting neologisms like "muzzrat" are counterproductive, because they imply subhuman status for muslims are take attention away from the ideology. Insults personalise issues that need only be matters of fact.
On the other hand, referring to Sharia as "law" is also a self-evident offense against reason, because law supposes rules based in a reasonable degree of justice, which Sharia is not. It is therefore insulting to the real law of the free world by saying "Sharia Law". A more accurate description of what Sharia does is found in calling it, correctly, "Sharia War."
The story goes that Mother Teresa was invited to an anti-war rally, and she refused because, she said, "I will never go to an ANTI-war rally, but if you decide to hold a peace rally, I will be able to attend." Notice the difference in language?
When free men and women use words like "counterjihadists", "infidels", and "anti-Islamists", they are limiting their focus to the problem of Islam. Instead of trying to force the problem to be fixed, we can simply choose to support the fulfillment of human needs.
But using language that focuses on the solution and remains sharp-pointed is quite a challenge! I suggest, of course, referring to Muslims as "slaves of Allah", which is accurate, and Westerners as "free women and men". But there may be better ways to language it, that capture the human needs better.
Finally, the goal of free men and women in regard to Islam must simply be PERMANENT PACIFICATION of Islam.
Permanent pacification. Two words. Because the West has several times pacified Islam, but we have not had the vision or will to make pacification permanent.
If we pacify Islam now without making pacification permanent, then Islam will again become a problem to future generations. It is unwise to finish pacifying Islam again without also completing the job.
What permanent pacification looks like is beyond the scope of this short discussion of language, but suffice to say, free women and men must stop relating to Muslims as the enemy, and start relating to them as patients who need healing, friends who are spiritually unwell, and brothers and sisters who need a wise balance of firm and careful challenge and support.
Adopting permanent pacification of Islam as our goal frees the West to develop enough wisdom and compassion to actually finish the job of pacification. And to those who say we cannot make permanent pacification of Islam a reality, I reply that we already have in the past, and that we simply need to complete the job.
Orthodox Islam is an oxymoron as Islam is one and indivisible. It will become clear if one reads the Qu'ran from cover to cover and the life of Muhammad and if more proof is required then one can read the Hadith of Shahi Bukhari. Whether all Muslims decide to practice Islam strictly or not is a different matter, but that is NOT Islam.Unless the toxic texts of the Islamic books are themselves condemned all efforts to curb Islamofascism will amount to nothing. Once you accept the fact that Islam is NOT a religion but a political dogma masquerading (just because a god has been thrown in for unquestioned obedience) as one and conceptualised for world hegemony of Darul Islam, you are on the right track and not otherwise.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteRegarding pont 3#. The Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a kingdom of callous brutal misogyny of the most heinously heartless kind there is. Be it the vicious, malicious and murderous Islamic practice of what is so very inappropriately called in the Islamic world “honor killing” and also the brutal cruel , savage Islamic tradition so unfittingly called “female circumcisum “ which is reality of female genital mutilation. And other Islamic evils
An example, on March 11, 2002 in Saudi Arabia a girls dorm caught of fire, the girls naturally rushed out of that dorm that was on fire . In their hast to escape the flames they forgot to take and put on their face veils. Those Islamic state police of Saudi Arabia with this totally unreasonable and heartless Islamic mindset forced all the girls back into the dorm that was on fire. Only because they didn’t have their face veils. So all those girls did a horrible painful death .This is worse than tragic and sad, this is the murderous misogyny of the Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
Hi Citizen:
ReplyDeleteAgree with your one liner and your objectives. But drop the 'orthodox'. Islam is the problem.
Citizen Warrior offers us a well-written well-thought-out essay worthy of mass dispersal across the Web to maximize the number of eyes/minds reading its message.
ReplyDeleteAll that I would add is my own opinion that Western countries must consider the concept of total denial of all that is Islam from entering our sacred soil. What would be the rationale for denying Islam existence withing OUR cultures, societies and countries? This:
Islam is far more than a religion. It is also a way of life, a set of customs and if not constrained by outside forces an economic AND governmental system. Islam is not compatible with the Western way of life. It is our right and DUTY to preserve our Western way of life.
Islam is a cancer. Allow but once "cell" to exist within a Western "body" and the deadly disease spreads. This is our land and we have the right to deny death from entering our homelands
Ed beat me to it!!! As a wise man wrote decades ago "It's Islam, Stpid!" No mainstream madhab abjures the necessity of jihad. Bahai is heresy, not Islam. There are differences over scheduling, strategy & tactics but not the need to conquer the world.
ReplyDeleteEducation is key to success. Most will not read Koran & hadith. They will not slog through thousands of pages of redundant dreck. In the age of You Tube, a new tactic is required.
Imran Firasat had the right idea, he made several graphic novels which illustrate and explain important aspects of Islam.
Acts 19 Ministries has the right idea, their "Islamicize Me" series brings hadith to life with humor.
Bosh Fawstine with his drawings, comix and playing cards, has the right idea. Prevail on him to do a Life of Muhammad video series.
Two fellows promised to do a sira movie, none performed. Talk Mel Gibson into doing it, one screen play sits on the shelf already.
CW, you raused the issue of hadith chronology. I do not remember whether the "Encyclopedia of Canonical Hadith" has any chronology or not, but I doubt it. The one text that has chronology is Tabari's Tahrik, 38 volumes. You can find it at Kalamulla, there are links in the "Library For Fixing Broken Links" at my Islam Exposed blogspot.
ReplyDeleteBill Warner has a chronological Qur'an.
You might find clues in the biographies of the salaf, which can be found in the first volume of "Hayat al-Qulub", the second volume is the Shiia Sirah. You can also try Ibn Sa'd vols. 3-8.
A reader emailed this comment:
ReplyDelete#7 Should be to prevent colleges, universities, and all American companies from accepting money and donations from Foreign Islamic groups and governments.
I am surprised that you did not raise the issue of how we should all stop funding Islam through Halal Certification which is on so many products and services we buy as we shop & eat out. We must be alert, know what we are buying and do our utmost to BOYCOTT HALAL!
ReplyDeleteThis issue is now worldwide. This is not just about ritually slaughtered meat - it is on so many foods, most baby formula, toddler foods and pet food, cosmetics & health & beauty products, clothing eg. Boo Hoo, pharmaceuticals, sports products, financial, mortgages and insurance, logistics, travel & hospitality... there is barely a sector that has not been infiltrated now.
In many countries it is difficult, if not impossible, to avoid buying Halal Ritually Slaughtered Meat, because the rejected haram meat is sold off cheap in our supermarkets - unlabelled of course! This meat is judged to be unfit for Muslim consumption at the post-slaughter inspection process - for a number of reasons, from a blemish to more sinister reasons - all of which are not reported or noted. In UK & Europe check out the Meat Codes. I only buy direct from Farmers such as Lamb2Ewe and I get my raw milk from the Calf At Foot Dairy - both deliver - it costs a little more, but you can really taste the difference.
Plus many countries are now compelled to export Halal Meat - mostly to Non-Islamic countries, because eg. the EU insist on this. See the Eg. All NZ Lamb is halal certified, all South African meat and take a look Brazil, and at the Australian Government website where the EU have insisted that all meat exports must be halal certified or halal compliant.
Older Muslims know that this insistence for halal compliance is completely unnecessary - See the BOYCOTT HALAL pages on Facebook & visit the BOYCOTT HALAL website where the reasons are clearly explained on the front page - Read the other informative articles too here:
http://boycotthalal.com
It certainly seems that BOYCOTT HALAL meets the Counterjihad criteria 'To marginalise, discredit, and disempower orthodox Islam'. Join up on Facebook - over 100,000 have.
If you are still reading - Thanks
Concerning point number six which is"Prevent the constructions of mosques within our borders."
ReplyDeleteThe construction of the many mosques in both and America and Europe not only means that more and more Muslims are entering those two continents and likewise more and more people in America and Europe are now being proselytized to Islam. This may be disturbing enough. In addition, this mass construction of mosques on America and Europe have still a further meaning which has been explained by a former Muslim who is now a Christian, Dr. Daniel Shayesteh, in his book ISLAM THE HOUSE I LEFT BEHIND for in page 99 it informs the reader that "The mosque is vital for establishing Muslims as sovereign over non-Muslims in a non-Islamic society or country. Building a mosque in a non-Islamic society or country symbolizes Islam's claim over that society or country, even with a non-Muslim majority."